Posts by Andrew Sh

29

The NEW New World Translation. Suggestions please.

by Andrew Sh in

i'm hoping to produce a new new world translation of the bible and if you have any ideas i would appreciate your contributions.

the format is thus:-.

1. the book, chapter and verse.. 2. the king james version (authorised version) of the above in full.

Andrew Sh

Luke 9:49-50

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (KJV)

In response John said: “Instructor, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us.” But Jesus said to him: “Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU .” (NWT)

In response John said: "Instructor, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us." And Jesus said to him: "Too right! If he is not an authorised Witness of Jehovah then you should inform the Governing Body and they will stop him." (New NWT).

OR

In response John said: "Instructor, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he is not a member of our Kingdom Hall." And Jesus said unto him: "Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU. (New NWT).

Committee have not yet decided on this, but the first option is preferred, but perhaps a bit too brave.

16

Urgent - Any Atheists Want to be on BBC Radio 4?

by cofty in

the bbc want to interview somebody who was part of a faith community but who became an athiest due to information available on the internet.. i am tempted but to be honest the profile doesn't really fit my story.

this is a great opportunity to tell the story from the ex-jw perspective on mainstream national radio.. it is part of a four part series called "digital human" presented by guardian technology writer aleks krotoski so it will no doubt get press coverage there as well.. check out this link .

or contact .... .

Andrew Sh

NewChapter,

Sorry i forgot all about my post on:-

Are exJW's not entitled to quote or interpret scriptures in minds of Christians that were never JW's?

I have replied to you now for the first part.

Regards

20

Are exJW's not entitled to quote or interpret scriptures in minds of Christians that were never JW's?

by tootired2care in

jw
friends

this is one that i've been struggling with since i started hanging out here.

when you get on a thread and quote a scripture with a comment to make a point, the believers who have never been jw's often knee jerk reaction jump all over it, and in essensce say that you cannot understand the passage because you are not a believer like them.. it's as if they are saying what is written and what you have learned about certain passages are automatically wrong just because you were taught from a jw perspective, or that you lack basic reading comprehension.

i agree many of the jw teachings are off, but i can certainly respect more of their interpretations of scriptures than i can of other christian denominations.

Andrew Sh

NewChapter

First about that comma:-

A - "Truly I say unto you, .................. Today you will be with me in paradise" or

B - "Truly I say unto you today, ........ You will be with me in paradise".

Two reasons:-

First: If B above is true, what purpose does the word "Today" serve? It is not necessary, a superfluous addition. If this is what Our Lord had meant it would have been easier (and better) for Him to have said "Truly I say unto you, You will be with me in paradise", leaving out the "today" altogether. If B is correct the word "today" adds absolutely nothing (except the possiblility of misinterpretation and confusion). In fact, in view of the second reason given below it is utterly misleading.

Second:

Look up all the other places in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John where Our Lord says "Verily I say unto you", "Verily I say unto thee" or "Verily, verily, I say unto you" or "Verily, verily, I say unto thee" (all KJV).

In all, these phrase types are said no less than 77 times. It was Our Lord's way of drawing attention what he was going to say next, often because it was going to be a surprising truth. You are right there were no commas in the original but in view of this phrase being given 76 times I think we are entitled to believe He used exactly the same phrase in Luke 23:43 and for the same reason.

Read through all the following uses of those phrase types (as given in English by KJV) and I think you will find it impossible to come to any other conclusion:-

From Matthew's Gospel:-

5:18,26; 6:2,5,16; 8:10; 10:15,23,42; 11;11; 13:17; 16:28; 17:20; 18:3,13,18; 19:23,28; 21:21,31; 23:36; 24:2,34,47; 25:12,40,45; 26:13,21,34

From Mark's Gospel:-

3:28; 6:11; 8:12; 9:1,41; 10:15,29; 11:23; 12:43; 13:30; 14:9,18,25,30

From Luke's Gospel:-

4:24; 11:51; 12:27; 13:35; 18:17,29; 21:32; and the one under debate Luke 23:43

From John's Gospel:-

1:51; 3:3,5,11; 5:19,24,25; 6:26,32,47,53; 8:34,51,58; 10:1,7; 12:24; 13:16,20,21,38; 14:12; 16:20,23; 21:18

In each case the phrase is simply "Verily I say unto you" or a variant without the superfluous addition of the word "today" in the phrase... unless Luke 23:43 is a peculiar exception, but why should it be, and what purpose does the word "today" in Luke 23:43 then serve?

Regards

30

When does someone become Anointed with Holy Spirit?

by The Searcher in

a bible truth - "one baptism".

(ephesians 4:5) .

however, according to 'accepted wisdom', there must be two baptisms - one visible, and one invisible.

Andrew Sh

Thanks Nambo, Never been a JW, so tended to assume I understood what Babylon the Great was from a bit of reading here and there!

Being born again and being a J Dub... Well, the wind blows whereever it wills, and so does the Spirit. But the Spirit leads to the right understanding of the Word, the Spirit works with the word of God, and certainly the Spirit points to Christ as Saviour and Lord, not to anything else as Saviour and Lord.

30

When does someone become Anointed with Holy Spirit?

by The Searcher in

a bible truth - "one baptism".

(ephesians 4:5) .

however, according to 'accepted wisdom', there must be two baptisms - one visible, and one invisible.

Andrew Sh

Speaking as a member of Babylon the Great, the great harlot, as a Trinitarian Christian, and evangelical:-

All quotes from King James Version.

There is:-

1 - the beginnings of the workings of the Holy Spirit in the soul before conversion. No one can believe, or be drawn to God by their own sinful nature, the Spirit draws us to God, increases our understanding of the ways of God, draws us to Christ. The wind blows whereever it wills (John 3:8).

2 - the receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you don't have the Spirit of God, also called the Spirit of Christ, which is the Holy Spirit, then you do not belong to Christ, and you are not saved. Romans 8:9 - "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." And the whole thrust of Romans chapter 8 is that if you do not have the Spirit of God then you are still in the flesh and cannot please God. Romans 8:8 "So they that in the flesh cannot please God". According to Romans chapter 8, you are either in the flesh or in the Spirit, there is no other alternative option, no middle option, no halfway house, no 'being fit for Paradise Earth but unfit for Heaven'. If you have the Spirit you are born again, a child of God, Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."

3 - Finally there is the filling of the Holy Spirit, which can happen several times in a believer's experience and is evidenced by more extraordinary zeal/love for God (or other noticeable Spiritual effects) than at other times. The more we trust Christ and strive to obey, the more evidence we are being filled with the Spirit. We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit, so this is not a work that happens upon us, so much as something we attempt by obedience, but is God's prerogative too (Ephesians 5:18) "And be not drunk with wine wherein is excess; but be ye filled with the Spirit... " etc.. where it is clear that being filled with the Spirit is something that we are to receive by our obedience. So this filling of the Holy Spirit ebbs and flows as we maintain our love/zeal/faith for the Lord. It is possible for a believer to grieve the Holy Spirit by which ye were sealed (Ephesians 4:30) "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption". The believer was sealed when he/she believed the gospel and was born again and received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Clearly, a true believer cannot be both filled with the Spirit and grieving the Holy Spirit, so the filling of the Holy Spirit is a state that is in accord with our efforts to obey/love/worship/serve the Lord. But it is not automatic, the filling of the Spirit is also the prerogative of the Holy Spirit.

Just to add a little more to 2 above: You receive the Holy Spirit the moment you truly believe on Christ for salvation, as mentioned in Galatians 3:2:

"This only would I learn of you: received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith?" From the whole letter of Galatians it is clear that the Apostle is saying we receive the Spirit the moment we believe the Gospel. The heart of the Gospel is described as a historical message in 1 Corinthians 15:3,4, though those verses do not tell us who Christ actually: is he God and man, two natures in one person, or something/someone else? Nor do they tell us what we are saved from: eternal punishment or not?

The moment you believe the Gospel truly, and trust Christ for salvation then you receive the Spirit and are born again. Being born again is the same as being born of the Spirit or receiving the Spirit. John 3:6 "That which is born of spirit is spirit." Then that great statement of the Gospel is given in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave is only begotten Son that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but receive everlasting life." Believe that verse truly in your heart, no ifs and no buts, and ask God for forgivenesss for ever imagining you could earn such a wonderful gift as a relationship with God, or do any marvellous good work to get the forgiveness of sins, and repent of such follies, and turn from your old way of life and be willing to give up all and turn to God, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and will be born again: that is the thrust of John chapter 3.

Best wishes

29

The NEW New World Translation. Suggestions please.

by Andrew Sh in

i'm hoping to produce a new new world translation of the bible and if you have any ideas i would appreciate your contributions.

the format is thus:-.

1. the book, chapter and verse.. 2. the king james version (authorised version) of the above in full.

Andrew Sh

MP, I don't doubt his managerial skills, but he's also brilliant at gouging the eyes of opposing managerial team members:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJS_RceEgk8

(I expect this will not help his credentials for being considered one of the Special Ones in the (New NWT) JW doctrinal sense of the phrase.)

John 3:3

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (KJV)

"In answer Jesus said to him: Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (NWT)

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Unless anyone is born again he will not see the kingdom of Heaven.(* See Footnote)" (New NWT)

(Note, the editorial committee have seen the need to change the tense from "he cannot see" (ie he cannot see the Kingdom of God here and now, while he is alive, he cannot see it right now) to "he will not see" in the future. This better fits with the Truth.

(* - New NWT Footnote: To see the Kingdom of Heaven you must be born again, but to spend eternity on the Paradise Earth it is, of course, entirely unnecessary. For this you need not be born again.)

John 3:7

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (KJV)

"Do not marvel because I told you, YOU people must be born again" (NWT)

"Do not marvel because I told you, the best thing would be to be born again.( +See Footnote) (New NWT)

(+ - New NWT Footnote: This is the same idea as in verse 3. To see Heaven in the future you must be born again, but to be pleasing to God and spend eternity on Paradise Earth you needn't be born again at all. A proper understanding of what Jesus was saying clearly helps you to see that Jesus was most certainly not teaching that you must be born again. He might have said that, but that's not what he meant.)

32

Lyman Swingle at the Bethel Breakfast table - What fun!

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

https://vimeo.com/41590728.

how in the world do you embed videos on this site?.

Andrew Sh

Mann

"I'm a nihilist and a tour through a museum is the ultimate gospel of nihilism. No matter what you believe or not believe, 150 years from now most of us will be not even remembered by our very descendants." - Mann

A graveyard, especially with dirty, old, plastic flowers, is a pretty good evidence of the same.

But I think the ultimate gospel of nihilism is probably the book of Ecclesiastes by Solomon. eg:-

"For there is no remembrance of the wise more than the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dies the wise man? Even as the fool. Therefore I hated life, because the work that is wrought under the sun is grevious unto me: for all is vanity (meaningless) and vexation of spirit." Ecclesiastes 2:16,17.

Excepting that Solomon's conclusion is:-

"Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing whether it be good or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13,14.

But cheer up: "Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth, and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment. Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity. " Ecclesiastes 11:9,10.

Its a bit of a surprise that they, the hierarchy, should think it beneficial to show to the modern day rank and file the JWs from several decades ago zealously preparing to go round telling everyone the end is just a few months away, maybe just two or three years away, certainly no more than that.

32

Lyman Swingle at the Bethel Breakfast table - What fun!

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

https://vimeo.com/41590728.

how in the world do you embed videos on this site?.

Andrew Sh

As I've never been a JW....

The only other JW talk I have heard is Fred Franz telling everyone about the church of Antioch doing its own thing about seperating Paul and Barnabus for the first missionary journey... Fred sounds aggressive, and not really pleasant at all.

But from this video I can see why people think the JWs are Gods's people, and why some struggle for a long time even when the truth is beginning to dawn on them that it is not the Truth/Biblical. Lyman seems a really nice, gentle old man... and the prayer from whoever sounded OK too.

I'm reminded that, often, a heretical/cultic organisation/church is discovered not by what is said, but by what is left out. I think I would struggle too.. I'm sure I would. Praise God, He never allowed me to get stuck inside.

29

The NEW New World Translation. Suggestions please.

by Andrew Sh in

i'm hoping to produce a new new world translation of the bible and if you have any ideas i would appreciate your contributions.

the format is thus:-.

1. the book, chapter and verse.. 2. the king james version (authorised version) of the above in full.

Andrew Sh

Further optional extra:-

"What's more, not only have you bin a murdering thief, and you've done no door knocking whatsoever and actually nothing for the Kingdom, but, and I hesitate to say this, but what's worse, much worse, even than having been a murdering thief... you smell I mean terrible, and you look a mess, your clothes are a mess, you've got no tie, your hair is a mess, and, I can hardly bear to say it... but... you've got a beard, yes you have, you've got a beard, a horrible, horrible, scraggy growth on your dirty chin. So forget Heaven. I'm doin' ya a big, big favour just to let you into the paradise earth."

29

The NEW New World Translation. Suggestions please.

by Andrew Sh in

i'm hoping to produce a new new world translation of the bible and if you have any ideas i would appreciate your contributions.

the format is thus:-.

1. the book, chapter and verse.. 2. the king james version (authorised version) of the above in full.

Andrew Sh

Luke 23:43

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." (KJV)

"And he said to him: Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise." (NWT)

"And Jesus said to him: Verily, I am going to make a BIG effort to tell you the truth today, because, you remember what I said yesterday? Well, Sweet Guns of Armageddon, I was just teasing about that: anyway, never mind, listen now: One day, after Armageddon..... (New NWT)

different options:-

"you" or

"your body, but not actually the real YOU of course, but inhabited by someone who looks like you" (New NWT)

Different options:-

"will be with me in Paradise." (New NWT)

"will be not such a very long way away from me, because I will be in Heaven while you (or option B above) will be in the Paradise earth." (New NWT).

optional extra:-

"I mean, you've lived as a murdering thief, right? You've put no literature through post boxes, so you cannot expect to come to Heaven with the Special Ones, now can you?" (optional extra in the New NWT).

As you can see, the committee is struggling with how to get God's Truth across as clearly as possible for this verse. Perhaps we should write to the Writing Department at Brooklyn for further guidance. They know how to "tweak" things.